From Summer Issue 62
British rapper AJ Tracey sits down with TV chef Big Zuu to talk about the evolution of his new album, Don’t Die Before You’re Dead, working together as grime MCs, and their new cooking show, Big Zuu and AJ Tracey’s Rich Flavours
There’s a quiet haze to AJ Tracey’s world. Not foggy, not unclear, just charged. On the brink of releasing his third studio album, Don’t Die Before You’re Dead, it feels like that moment before lightning hits the sky. He feels more himself, more ready, more excited than ever before.
His first footsteps onto the scene happened back in 2011 under the stage names Looney and Loonz, releasing homemade tracks on Soundcloud and slowly forging his own sonic path through the noise. Looking at the artist now, he feels like someone who has already lived multiple lifetimes – pirate radio prophet, UK chart assassin and fashion’s reluctant muse. There’s a duality to him. He’s been called a grime MC, a rapper and a pop star – but none of those labels suit him. A shapeshifter if you will.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
Hailing from west London’s Ladbroke Grove, AJ Tracey has been rooted in his beginnings. It’s an area defined by stark contrasts – smart stuccoed mansions just streets away from some of the capital’s most deprived council blocks. It is in these friction-ridden streets of affluence and adversity that he transformed from Ché Wolton Grant to AJ Tracey.
“That juxtaposition either encourages people to chase their dreams or give up on them,” he reflects with his friend, collaborator and TV chef Big Zuu before his cover shoot with Hublot wearing the brand’s new Big Bang collection.
Having bonded as teenagers and remained close ever since, the two have put their chemistry to the big screen with Sky’s late-night entertainment series: Big Zuu and AJ Tracey’s Rich Flavours. “We always had big dreams because we were always reminded of where we’re from. It’s easy to get sucked into the mad shit. We were just lucky that we stayed on track. Now we are where we are.”
Big Zuu: It’s been four years since your last album – that’s a long time. How have you evolved as a person?
AJ Tracey: That’s a good question. I think I’m way more mature. The things that I care about have definitely shifted. Four years ago I definitely cared about all the stuff that you think a rapper would care about. What I care about now is spending time with people that I love, making memories. I did always care about these things but they were kind of on the back burner. I’ve understood that life means more than the things that you think are associated with being a rapper, like all the materialistic things.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
BZ: What was the starting point of this album?
AJ: The official starting point was when we went to Angelic Studios, which is on a farm in Banbury. All the mandem was there, you were there – it was when we made Paid In Full. That’s the official starting record.
BZ: Your new record is a very deep, personal one. You talk about stuff that you haven’t spoken about before. Do you think it’s because you’re a bit older that you feel like you can share more, especially the song, 3rd Time Lucky, about your mum and cancer?
AJ: Definitely. I think being older allows you to have the maturity and the wisdom to be able to explain your life and talk about things that maybe, when you’re younger, you weren’t emotionally mature enough to do. Every artist that I listen to and every artist that I respect always advances in their career and always starts talking about things that I didn’t know about them. And if you don’t learn something new about your favourite artists, then they’re doing the wrong thing.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
BZ: I hear that. I think, for me, as someone who knows you personally, I think it’s sick to see you went a little deeper. I also think that on your last album, Flu Game [2021], you touched on that.
AJ: I think on Flu Game, I attempted to get a little bit deeper and I wasn’t quite ready. When I made the rhythm on this album about my mum, it was difficult for me to rap the bars in front of everyone. I wanted to have my own space in the studio and be able to create that piece of music without everyone being there. But then when I played it – to all the mandem in the room – it was hard for me not to tear up because, obviously, I’m talking about some real shit. I wasn’t ready to do that on the last album. Now it’s easier for me because I’ve accepted the world. I’ve accepted who I am and I’m happy with who I am. It’s easier to talk about painful things when you’re happy.
BZ: Sonically the album has sounds from your childhood to the music you fuck with now. How do you approach floating through genres when it comes to making an album?
AJ: First of all I think about what the theme of the album is, and the theme for this album is my experience as a mixed-race British man. I think being British encapsulates everything we did – obviously, we’re grime MCs so that’s what we came up doing; it’s part of my upbringing. Grime is British music. Then contrasting it with an indie pop rock rhythm: that’s a core sound of being British. We all grew up on FIFA soundtracks and I think it’s something that connects black people, especially those growing up in the hood, to the white masses.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
BZ: Collaborations on the album – we’ve got Jorja Smith, Aitch, Headie One and, of course, Big Zuu. How do you pick who you choose to work with?
AJ: This is going to sound bare artistic but the features pick themselves. When I make a song, the sonic of the song determines who should be on the song so it’s not really me picking. And everyone on this album is my friend, like even me and you, Zuu. If it doesn’t make sense then we’re not just going to do a feature for the sake of it.
BZ: Why did you choose the name Don’t Die Before You’re Dead?
AJ: This album is about me being British and experiencing life as a 31-year-old man at the point I’m at now. If I can teach anyone else something about how to enjoy their life, or how to enjoy it more, it’s by actually just living your life. Because existing is not living. Eating your food, waking up in the morning and going through the motions is not living. That’s just existing. If you die now and you’re just existing, then you missed the point of life.
BZ: Were there any other names for the album?
AJ: Before the album was conceptualised, there was another name. But I can’t give you the name because it’s going to be the name of my next album.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
BZ: What do you want people to take from the album?
AJ: I want people to enjoy the music and to understand that I’ve evolved. I’m trying to talk to them about some issues in life that hopefully they can relate to on some level. I would love people to be able to connect with me and share this moment. I don’t really care about the numbers, I just care about if it lands properly and that people take the music in and fuck with it.
AJ Tracey: So what inspired you to start cooking seriously? What was the moment that it clicked?
BZ: When I was in school doing GCSE catering and cooking, both my teachers were on it. I was gassed to go to the lesson. When you did cooking in school and it was lunch time, you’d give your bredrins the food that you made. If we made biscuits, everyone’s getting biscuits. Then I started making it at home. As I got into my later teens, going to your yard and making macaroni cheese. It all stemmed from those lessons.
AJ: You’re already known for a variety of food shows but what made you want to make this new one together: Big Zuu and AJ Tracey’s Rich Flavours?
BZ: It’s a continuation of my journey in food. Big Zuu’s Big Eats [Dave, 2020] was the start, it was me introducing myself to the food world to say, “Yo, I’m actually a chef and I can also talk to people.” Then I did my breakfast show and last year I did 12 Dishes in 12 Hours, which was a show based on food and travel; whereas this is a food show, travel show and a bit of comedy in it too. I feel like this is just an elevated version of everything I’ve done, and the fact I’m doing it with you is dope.
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
AJ: The show allows different cultures to be celebrated. What do you hope that people take from the series?
BZ: With each episode, we were able to really immerse ourselves in different cultures – I hope that’s what we’re able to show the British public who may not have the luxury to travel to these places. Sometimes when I do these kinds of shows, I think the main thing is that I’m a normal working-class British brother and we’re able to give experiences to people, who might not have the chance to travel to these places, and educate them on things that are going on there. Everyone knows I love street food. Everyone knows I love food that comes from humble beginnings, but this show wasn’t just about showing people how rich food can be and how expensive food is. It was about showing people experiences via two people who actually come from where they come from.
AJ: What made you decide to pivot from music to full-time TV? Was it a hard decision?
BZ: It was very tough. I think the pandemic did it. I filmed Big Eats, headlined Outlook Festival on the mainstage and went on tour with Dave in 2019. I was doing really well. But when the pandemic hit, we weren’t able to release new music or perform. A big selling point of my music is performing live, so once that element of my music got taken away it was mad. I was on the best run of my career. The lockdown was announced in March and Big Eats came out in June. The response I was getting from TV was just so overwhelming; I was getting a lot of joy on this side. I’d reached a point in music: I put out my debut album, I toured the world and I’ve had so much fun. I almost felt like I did what I could do in music. I pushed so hard to get there for the past 10 years and I knew, if I kept going, I could have maybe taken it to another level. But I decided to focus my energy on one thing and that was on TV – I’m really happy that I’ve done that. I was able to channel my energy and start my production company – 2025 is a full circle. Rich Flavours came out under Big Productions and I’m on your album.
Introduction by Imogen Clark
Photographer: Elliott Wilcox
Stylist: Aha Dziedzic
Grooming: Nicola Svensen
Photography assistant: Andrew Moores
Styling assistant: Daisy McDonald
Talent: AJ Tracey
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