Glass Man sits down to talk to Mauritanian American actor Mamoudou Athie about his role in Yorgos Lanthimos’ twisted anthology, Kinds of Kindness
From Summer Issue 58
THE conversation that changed Mamoudou Athie’s life happened with a stranger in a hospital waiting room. It sounds like the start of an unwanted interaction – the kind where you politely nod your head and pray it’s over quickly. But this stranger started talking to Athie about her favourite play, Friedrich Dürrenmatt’s 1956 tragicomic, The Visit.
It just so happened that Athie was studying it at Yale’s drama school. He was in love with the play too, and it was all he could think about. Athie wishes he could remember the woman’s name because she helped him realise why acting makes him tick, “The way she talked about the play was so moving. I could see the effect it had on people.” From then on, the actor knew his life’s goal was “to work on things that really challenge people. Things that make them think… there’s nothing better.”
If your goal is to challenge audiences, then collaborating with Yorgos Lanthimos is a sure-fire way to do it. It’s a golden Spring afternoon in Los Angeles when the 35-year-old and I meet over Zoom to chat about his role in Lanthimos’ new anthology, Kinds of Kindness. The Mauritanian American actor’s disposition matches the rays that shine through his kitchen window. He’s got a warm, relaxing voice and plenty of hand gestures that ramp up as soon as we get talking about Lanthimos’ newest project.
The film has three sections, with Athie, Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons, Willem Dafoe, Margaret Qualley and Hong Chau appearing as new characters in each vignette. Athie’s role is “more of a cameo” in the first and third parts. In the second, he plays a cop whose partner, Plemons, descends into paranoia, convinced that his wife is an imposter.
Photographer: Ssam Kim
When we chat, Athie is about to fly to Cannes for the film’s premiere. We brainstorm tactics to get through the flight so he doesn’t roll into the south of France, looking like something from the Night of the Living Dead. Athie laughs through a broad smile as we riff on ways to realign his body clock to French time and circumvent the dehydrating, life-draining force that is plane aircon. Whatever way you cut it, no matter how many biohacking techniques you try, the flight will suck. Of course, he knows it’s a tiny price to pay: “I’m so excited at the end of the day.”
It’s not the actor’s first time at Cannes. Last year, he represented Disney Pixar’s animation, Elemental (Athie voiced Wade Ripple, a “go-with-the-flow guy”, and it’s easy to see the similarities between the two). When I bring up Elemental, Athie puts his hand on his heart and closes his eyes. The project still resonates deeply. Elemental’s director, Peter Sohn, drew inspiration from his parents’ immigration story, which struck a chord with Athie. He was born in Mauritania where he spent the first six months of his life before his family was granted political asylum in America.
The family settled in Washington, DC, where Athie spent much of his childhood trying to keep up with a big sister who loved acting. “I was just imitating her initially … but when I did plays in school, I kept on thinking, ‘this is what I want to do’.” Soon, childhood dreams turned into reality, and Athie began his career in theatre, debuting on Broadway in The Mystery of Love and Sex. Since then, you may have seen him in Brie Larson’s Unicorn Store, Netflix’s horror series Archive 81 or FXX’s absurd comedy Oh Jerome, No.
But before commercial success, there was drama school. In fact, if there was an award for going to the highest number of acting schools, the 35-year-old might just win it – he’s attended three. “Attended” is used deliberately here because Athie didn’t graduate from the first one. You won’t be able to find its name anywhere. Athie is taking that one to the grave.
He chuckles, saying, “I don’t want to get sued.” Let’s just leave it at this – the acting course left much to be desired, but Athie also realises he wasn’t ready at 17. “My maturity level wasn’t there yet, at least enough to handle being in New York for the first time.” He had fun, he met people, but he didn’t take it seriously.
Photographer: Ssam Kim
It wasn’t until Athie attended William Esper Studio that he “legitimately fell in love with acting”. Founded by Bill Esper, the school is dedicated to Sanford Meisner’s eponymous acting technique whose creed could be summed up as impulse over intellect. Get out of your head and into your gut. In one exercise, students repeat an observation back to one another – You have big teeth. I have big teeth? Yes, you have big teeth. Alright, I have big teeth. As the exercise crescendos, students add their own point of view reflecting on the scene – You look a little bothered. I am a little bothered. Just a little bit? A little bit. Just a little bit.
Repeated phrases become like chants, encouraging actors to stop thinking and start feeling into the present. That’s where the magic of spontaneity lies. With all that chanting, I’m not surprised when Athie tells me, “I just became kind of like a monk. I’m either all in or completely out, and I was all in. I was like a maniac. All I did was go to plays and readings.” He credits Suzanne Esper with initiating his newfound devotion.
“She just gave acting such a wonderful, workman-like quality because it was all about the real essence of it.” Esper has been teaching at the studio since 1979, taking the reins after her husband’s passing in 2019. Athie’s face blazes with gratitude when he speaks about his teacher. “She’s been my mentor since I was 19. I love her like a dear friend.”
There’s a real sense of flow and openness to Athie that sits alongside a more clinical, logical side. It’s clear that the technical bent of William Esper Studio left its mark – acting is a craft, and like all crafts, it needs to be worked at, not winged. After graduating at 19, Athie went to Shakespeare In The Park and realised there was a gap in his skillset, “I knew I was missing things. I remember sitting there and reading all these actor’s bios and I thought, ‘I just don’t know how to do Shakespeare at that level’.” His textbook desire to grow led to acting programme number three at Yale’s Drama School.
Photographer: Ssam Kim
The rhythm of Athie’s early adulthood was a flurry of new cities, new courses and new challenges. Layer upon layer, he built up a repertoire that reveals his reverence for acting as an art. When he speaks about his craft, there’s a delicacy; a distinct feeling that it’s something to be handled with care. The result? Athie has amassed an impressive list of credits, but he’s never lost touch with the wisdom that there’s always more to learn.
That ethos served him well on the set of Kinds of Kindness. Lanthimos’ work stretched the actor; it helped him “grow up a lot”. Athie got his induction into the Greek director’s weird and whacky world when he went to see The Lobster with friends at Yale. “We were all like ‘woah, who made this?’ You know a movie is good when you’re asking that question. After that, I kept tabs on everything [Lanthimos] did. I devoured everything he came out with, so when I got the chance to work with him, it felt like a dream.”
It was a surreal moment when Lanthimos emailed Athie, commending his performance in Jason Reitman’s 2018 film The Front Runner. The director was drawn to Athie’s restrained, powerful presence as a young reporter with a strong conscience. Of course, Athie is exactly the kind of actor Lanthimos wants with him in the sandbox – his unnerving subtlety is a perfect match for a director with a penchant for brilliantly blank performances. When Lanthimos attached the script for Kinds of Kindness (then titled And), Athie read it through, but signing was already a given.
Photographer: Ssam Kim
I’m interested, what was Athie’s initial reaction to the script? “Woah, Yorgos, man, you don’t play.” It seems like a pretty accurate look into the mind of anyone who has been sucked into one of Lanthimos’ universes – get ready for a twisted ride down the rabbit hole. At the time of writing, Kinds of Kindness has premiered at Cannes, prompting one critic, Bilge Ebiri, to comment “sicko Yorgos is back”. Athie was right – Yorgos doesn’t play.
When we chat, the actor isn’t allowed to divulge the plot’s mischievous and macabre details, but I take his word for it. Throughout our call, he breaks out in fits of laughter, covering his head in his hands, beaming with the grin of someone who is remembering scenes of a film that is yet to premiere. It’s the ultimate teaser. Athie knows what’s in store for us. “It’s a trip,” he manages to let out between chuckles.
With the plot under wraps, the actor focuses on the joys of working with Lanthimos. “The thing that I love about the guy is he has a lot of integrity. He’s uncompromising … I deeply respect that. I would love to only work with people like that because you made something you meant to. Whatever happens, happens, but you can feel comfortable with the effort.”
Photographer: Ssam Kim
There’s a clear reverence for the Greek’s fearlessness. It’s a quality Athie channelled into his own performance, which involved a nude scene. It wasn’t unfamiliar territory for the actor (Athie had been nude onstage during his performance in The Mystery of Love & Sex), but experience doesn’t guarantee ease. The scene was “well outside” Athie’s comfort zone.
“I was scared initially, but I spoke with Yorgos, and I knew I was in good hands. Signing onto something where you feel like you’re giving so much of yourself is scary. If you feel like you’re compromising yourself, there’s always a bill that’s due, and it’s hard to recoup from that, so you want to be sure. Fortunately, I made the right choice. These guys couldn’t have been more respectful.”
The reward on the other side of fear is always growth. This project took Athie for a ride into Lanthimos’ absurdist wonderland, where you have to leave your doubts at the door. He fell into a filmic realm where dark comic timing and stilted coldness reign, but life on set was full of warmth. Rehearsals included prancing around, with Jesse Plemons imitating Monty Python’s Ministry of Silly Walks sketch.
Athie spent a day on set “cracking up” with Willem Dafoe (one of the funniest people he’s ever met). Amid all that growth, all of that stretching himself into new territories, there was fun. Perhaps the two go hand in hand – pushing yourself creatively requires there to be lightness and play that makes you feel safe to go to new depths and darker spaces. There must be love, respect and trust. For Athie, the set of Kinds of Kindness abounded in them all.
by Christiana Alexakis
Photographer: Ssam Kim
Stylist: Lisa Bae
Art director: Evan Woods
Grooming: Grace Phillips
Producer: Windy Lee
Styling assistant: Bella Bice
Talent: Mamoudou Athie
Location: Downtown L.A. Proper
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